I discovered OKnice in 2022 purely by chance. He came up while I mindlessly scrolled TikTok instead of sleeping. What appealed to me in the video had nothing to do with his music. It was more about my mindset in the moment. It was thought-proving enough to earn an additional click, and my music discovery journey began.
OKnice, originally from Oklahoma, now lives in one of the hotbeds for independent hip-hop and rap music, the Twin Cities of Minnesota. Like his Rhymesayers and Doomtree contemporaries, OKNice raps about more introspective and socially conscious topics over beats filled with jazz, melody, and boom-bap. His debut full-length, Have You Tried Being Happy?, also found a spot in my Best of 2022 list.
This year, OKnice tackles a different kind of release – a full-length collaboration. Teaming up with Claud Six and Zepeda (the latter did production work on OKnice’s 2022 project), the three form an indie hip-hop Voltron. Together, they released It’s a Fine Line Between Planted and Buried on November 17th. It’s a wonderful showcase for their collective talents. Even though they have different backgrounds and styles, the album sounds like they’ve been a group from the beginning.
Following its release, OKnice sat down with me to answer a few questions about the process of making this album and how it might impact his future work.
Let’s get right into it. What’s your hip-hop origin story?
The quick snapshot is a few key points. When I was a little kid, my dad gave me a cassette of King of Rock by Run DMC, and I immediately memorized “You Talk Too Much,” because I did. I loved a lot of Run DMC and MC Hammer. Both cassettes got ran constantly. In early middle school, I was stealing things from my brother’s room, and one of those things was Bone Thugs-N-Harmony’s Art of War CD. That’s when I really started to shape my own taste in rap. I started seeking everything out that I could.
A couple years later, a friend’s older brother and his homies were all freestyling, and I wanted to join in. I was absolute garbage, but from then on, I kept at it to get really good at freestyling. I’d do lunchroom battles and would rap any chance I got. One of those older guys, Alonzo, kinda took me under his wing to really introduce me to everything from early 50 Cent to El-P. That, with my love of southern rap and the impact of Texas hip-hop coming up into Oklahoma, ultimately honed in my sound.
‘Zo passed my senior year of high school and a whole lot of life happened for the next decade. I did spoken word and played in a couple bands for a chunk of time that I wasn’t doing rap. Then, in 2017, I realized how much I missed making rap seriously and dove into getting back in top form. I did battles for a few years while I was re-figuring out the music, and then, in late 2017, O started releasing again, and the rest is history.
Before we get into your new collab album, let’s talk about “Death Saves.” That was your first single of the year. As a nerd, I know what a death save is. What imagery are you conjuring up with the RPG reference and the lyrics of that song?
If we want to totally nerd out on it, the song as a whole could almost read as a character sheet. It gives traits, history, etc. “Self-centered spellbender” is part of what inspired Christian Arnder to make the cover. The title itself really served as a reflection of where I’m at. 2022 was bleak for me, and it reflected in the music. With a death save really representing that teetering between save or grave, it felt sort of where I was at. Sonically speaking, this was kind of revitalized OKnice. I still write the things I write, but there’s a new life in the lyrics and sound.
Your newest release is a collab between you, Claud Six, and Zepeda. Who thought of getting all of you together and seeing if you could make something work?
I had to go look in my email to actually remember. The first email came from Claud Six, and I think it came, like most things in my life do, from Twitter. We all shared a mutual respect for each other’s solo work. Claud’s originally from the Midwest and now is in Portland, where Zepeda is, and I had connected with Zepeda before without ever knowing they knew each other. Definitely one of those “That’s the universe sayin’ something, right?”
You have a different flow than Claud Six. Was it challenging to put both of your styles together to create a cohesive track?
I thought it was gonna be hard, but it was actually way easier. Because I wasn’t worried about sounding too similar, I was able to just do what I do. The challenge really came from doing something different enough from my solo stuff that it felt like something new and not just copy and pasting an OKnice verse into things. It also really opened me up for what I could write about. I couldn’t be the same kind of introspective I am on solo work, which can me more like talking to yourself in a room full of people.
With a title like It’s a Fine Line Between Planted and Buried, there are some pretty clear allusions to growth vs. death. Would you say that’s the overall theme and message you’re trying to portray with the album?
Ya know, it hits me that I don’t know if we ever officially talked about themes. But, when I think about what we all three do in our solo work, and what we did on this record, I think it’s definitely about those things in a very “normal” way. We weren’t trying to be too profound or have any special insight into those things. Just sharing our everyday experiences and seeing where those naturally cross. To get After School Special with it, it really shows how in life and death, we intersect in a lot of ways even when the finer details differ.
You’re a very honest MC with your writing – especially when it comes to your struggles with mental health. Is it challenging to be so transparent about your life for the whole world to hear?
It definitely is a weird line to walk. In some ways, I’m honest … in some really ugly ways. But, there’s a lot that I keep private. The stuff that I share tends to be in a way that I think could help others feel seen or validated. I don’t tell a ton of details about my family or my partner, in part because that doesn’t always feel like my stuff to tell. The ethics behind how much and what you share are one of my favorite things to talk about. I try to tell the truth in a way that doesn’t serve as trauma porn, and doesn’t hurt real life people, or burn any real relationships, while not sacrificing too many of the ugly parts. The one challenge once it’s out is how people then think they really know you, and that can get weird.
When I pay attention to the beats on the album, it feels like I hear some influence from folks like Madlib and MF DOOM. What is it about indie hip-hop that inspires you so much?
Underground and indie rap really showed me how you can just be who you are and as long as you respect the culture and aren’t wack, there’s a place for you. You can get weird and take risks, you just have to make sure you’re doing it the best you can. I’d like to say the sounds have always stuck out to me, but the first times I listened to DOOM or Aesop Rock, it was absolutely not for me. In my teens, I was really on trunk music and rap coming out of Texas. They had their own underground scene and sound that taught me the same things, but it took a little time for me to click with the lane I exist in now, but once I did, I was all in. There’s a lot more, at least perceived, freedom in indie hip-hop, no matter the style.
You’ve worked with Zepeda before on your solo full-length. How is it different working with them on a solo release versus a collab?
It was a lot less work to be honest. I sometimes can struggle with understanding where different parts of a beat hit or change. I don’t know why my brains that way, but working with another rapper it made that a lot easier. Because I just had to take and work on parts of the beat, it just made it feel way more manageable. Part of what takes me so long to write sometimes is how insurmountable a whole project can seem. A folder of beats is a lot less daunting knowing it’s not all on you.
Do the beats come first and then the lyrics? I’m just really curious what goes into the process from initial idea to completed song. What was the writing and recording process like?
Until my mid 20s, I was a lyrics first guy. Partly because I’d be writing raps throughout my day in places I couldn’t listen to beats. When I really started to do music seriously in my late 20s, it switched for no apparent reason. A beat hits me a certain way, and it just pours out. I write and record fairly slow compared to my peers. Part of that’s procrastination, part of that’s life, and part is because it takes me a long time to organize my thoughts how I want.
Claud and Zepeda were absolute machines. I had just lost my regular recording spot, so I was mostly in writing mode. Then, I was able to get a weekend to lay almost everything out. Honestly, the very different writing and recording processes coming together so well was just another signifier of what a good team we are and how well we mesh.
Any chance fans will see any live shows with this line-up to promote the album?
Not right now, but it’s a big goal for me to play out in Portland next year and will absolutely bug them about playing. I think we’d all be down to play any chance we get though. We all really love this project and the things we do.
Of all the songs on this release, which ones means the most to you?
It’s a toss up between “Two-Tone Cosmic Renegade Whip” and “Nobody.” “Two-Tone” is just what I love about rap. Every part of it is a song that I love. It’s the kind of music I tend to bump when I drive, and it’s the kind of rap I grew up making. It really is just homies making music they want, having fun, and being damn good at it.
“Nobody” means a lot because of the specific verse I have on there. That was one of the few I wrote and recorded early on, and it was from this weird place right on the cusp of the joy of releasing Have You Tried Being Happy?, and a bunch of awful life shit that was about to happen. That, and another feature verse I have dropping soon, just perfectly capture this really specific time in my life. When I play them back, it makes that moment feel almost surreal.
What have you learned with this project that you can take with you to improve your solo work?
I feel a lot more free to take some risks with flows and styles. I experimented a fair amount on this, and it was cool to see the things that work and the takes that will never escape the dungeons. It also really pushed me to want to collaborate more. There will definitely be many more joint efforts on future projects and hopefully more full collab projects.
What’s next for OKnice?
Breakfast! Probably biscuits and sausage gravy. After that, I’m going to work on wrapping up an EP with a fire producer I’m really excited for. Hoping 2024 is full of show runs, and I’ll be chipping away at another full length solo project. If there’s anything I learned in 2022-23, it’s to stay flexible. I’ve got plans I’m excited for and if those change, I’m excited for whatever does come my way. There will be raps and shows and feelings no matter what.
Get Social! Follow OKnice, Claud Six, and Zepeda on twitter. Check out the album on bandcamp!